I'm thinking about Zoom a lot these days, since I use it for teaching.

While it has clear problems, including privacy problems, a very common tip is to move to, of all things, Microsoft Teams.

I can't help but think that this is astroturfing from a monopoly power aimed at a (relatively) new and small company.

To be clear, something free/open source/self-hosted is def better than Zoom in almost all cases (BigBlueButton, Jitsi), and they deserve a lot of the shit they get, but just.. Microsoft?

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To me the Zoom privacy issues are a nothingburger.

@sproid They certainly aren't to me - there are real concerns, especially when Zoom inevitably goes tits up and sells all the information they have collected to the highest bidder.

I'm just wondering whether the monopolists are actually actively at work, or if it's just the nature of having a monopoly active in the market that makes their product be the one "everyone" pushes.

Zoom marketing practices are about the same as many other services that most people uses. In fact the way they handle users info is better than others like Facebook, Dropbox, etc. Many of the privacy concerns of the use case are features for the host to have minimum control. Compared to being in an actual college room, actual work meeting, it's basically the same limited acceptable privacy.

@sproid With the exception, of course, that in an actual meeting or teaching situation, that information is not passed to company servers for indefinite storage and data mining.

@pettter They collect "technical and operational support and service improvement. For example, we collect information such as a user’s IP address and OS and device details" thats about avegarge collection among every company on the internet as it can gets. Its not your meeting, chat, or personal info for marketing services. In other words is about the same as a teacher having your attendance.

@pettter Nobody made Zoom install software that opened Mac users' cameras to any website they visited. Nobody made them claim that was a feature and refuse to address it. Nobody made them claim to have end to end encryption when they didn't, and then claim their servers counted as an end.

@ersatzmaus For future reference I'd encourage you to read what you're replying to before posting.

@pettter My point was that it's not astroturf, they brought this on themselves.

@pettter I'd expect Microsoft to be a little bit better than Zoom. While they wouldn't be my first choice, I'm pretty sure they're at least trying to be as secure as possible.

@mansr You're now either claiming that Zoom is deliberately insecure or that Microsoft would be better in terms of attempting security work, neither of which I find particularly convincing.

@pettter Zoom seems to be run by a team of complete cowboys. Microsoft is not.

@mansr I have no idea how to respond to this except that "...yes it is?"

@pettter Oh, I see. You're one of those people who are incapable of seeing Microsoft as anything other than pure evil.

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